Speaker 1: 0:02

Hello, I'm Piotr and I'm Michał. Today we will talk about the most interesting thing from our El Dorado market, from the report on the purchase and expectation of the brand IT 2020-3 and 2024, prepared by DrudgeJoin with the expertise. I like the graphics. I like it. It's a good mix.

Speaker 2: 0:31

I won't comment on the graphics, but what is the El? Dorado about. For people who don't know, there were a lot of articles recently and a lot of reports from various social media saying that the El Dorado in IT was over, that is. It is just that, first of all, there is much less offer and much less. The articles were written in a lot less and those who expected such an increase in rewards as we could expect at the moment in IT.

Speaker 1: 0:59

I think they will be back year by year. Right here I have a date.

Speaker 2: 1:04

Well, you know, the inflation is much higher and they have to go with the taste now, and these articles were often written in such a way it's a bit gross, because the journalist liked it. You know the people from IT are very strict, the programmers who make up 30,000 zlotys in 40 years, and they also sell us.

Speaker 1: 1:29

They also optimize the tax as they do not have. So you know.

Speaker 2: 1:34

Yes, yes, so that was the whole El Dorado, and DrudgeJoin created an interesting report on this topic, about the El Dorado. What are your thoughts on this topic? Do we have El?

Speaker 1: 1:47

Dorado or not? Well, this is my comment. I think it's my comment in this report, but I think it's about productivity, not about El Dorado. For me, the most important information is that the amount of offers has fallen from year to year, year to year, and it seems that, unfortunately, this is such a trend that is being maintained and I don't know if it will be quickly reversed. I think that there will be experts looking for some niches, for example, machine learning, For example some graphics, 3D for example DevOps, I'm sure.

Speaker 1: 2:33

DevOps yes, such low ones that will be there more, but more output topics. Just programmers Python programmers, javascript. You are a beginner front-end developer. It can be very difficult here. There are much more applications I think there are 54% of users here, including the number of applications that have grown and I think that this trend will be that these people looking for jobs will be much more, much more in 2024. And this offer will be less and this competition will be much, much more trained. I think that this time in which everyone after bootcamp could find a job very quickly I mean, they could quickly find a job that has been forgotten and I think that today it will be more in 2024, invest in a good set of tools to strengthen those minors, seniors, who are in the organization instead of AI Power, for example, instead of recruiting someone else that now you will move this side.

Speaker 2: 3:50

Yes, especially here, when you look at the new features that you showed about the number, for example, of junior employees. It was always low number, much lower than the mid or senior employees, but it's not that it's low, just like you say. Right, with this low number, the offer will appear. The next problem is that the number of applications is much larger. Yes, these 54%. So I don't know if it's my offer, it's still more applications that have never been too much and this is a big problem for people who are trying to get into IT and we know that with the inflation that we have, it just makes you think, damn, we can change the job of a junior.

Speaker 1: 4:31

IT developer is actually so much advertising, and so on.

Speaker 2: 4:34

Yes, yes, yes it was a lot of work.

Speaker 1: 4:35

learn to program, learn to program yes, now even if you don't learn to program, go to Scrum Master, go to the project manager. There are also such advertising we sent ourselves to IT, probably memically between themselves, how it looks, who is written, and damn, it's not good In the sense, it's not cool, unfortunately, because I think that these expectations will not come out, they will not succeed, they will not be able to meet them, especially that junior offers are very small below the 5% rate.

Speaker 1: 5:20

What is the 20th offer? It's junior. I can say it will probably not be any of these offers. It's really a junior offer. What is more interesting, it's just a few thousand CVs. So this competition is powerful.

Speaker 2: 5:35

If anyone wants to have a nice CV, then I invite you to my company. We are doing, if we are doing improving these CVs. So this is also a product placement attention.

Speaker 2: 5:47

Interesting symbiosis, because with such a market, it is worth a good CV pro tip for free. However, yes, and that's something. But what I see from this report I don't know if you agree is that, as much as it is difficult to get into IT, there are a few less offers, there are more, but the ones who are already sitting in IT, they are quite. They are not released. They are quite good because, as I see here, the growth rate has increased here in the year 2023, most people said that it is well after 20% and more few people said that they did not have growth or these growth rates were low. So here are the numbers. At least. It turns out that most people get bad growth rates. So those who did not have it have even less and those who already had it get even more. So I don't agree with that.

Speaker 1: 6:47

I would like to note that we do not know if these are the growth rates, but I would like to know if these are the change of work.

Speaker 1: 6:59

So it may be a question of changing the work, because we see it in a lot of the public, in a lot of the movement and mobility on this market. So I think that a lot of people in the year 2000, in the year 2023, changed their work and could change the work for the one that is just above the salary, and the point is that now I think that these increases if we had 2020-2024, I can put a big fresh-pressed that it turns out that these increases will be quite low without changing the work. I think that most companies at the moment, seeing what is happening on the market, will not be. Will not be because it does not have to be. If it is a cool company, a reward and in this way it is cool for the economy. For the economy, because it does not turn around. We have a spiral. There is an inflation, a payment or whatever it is called that the inflation will force us to increase, so it will just stop, but I think that it will stop a lot of IT, which will be.

Speaker 2: 8:06

However, Well, here yes.

Speaker 1: 8:15

The payments will be in place, and.

Speaker 2: 8:21

Here I see the information. The average amount of paid payings has still grown. The tempo was lower than in the year 2022.

Speaker 2: 8:30

And here 70% of the specialists have noted the increase in payings. So it is well for sure a lot of them have gone through it. So it is probably easier for a person who is not a secret, a person who has to move to a paid job, than a person who is trying to get into the industry or, in a word, desperate because they have lost their job and are looking for it intensively and then they cannot afford to. They are not in such a negotiating position to look for an increase of 35%, as I see here in statistics. So I suspect that these people who get such an increase of 35%, which is written here.

Speaker 1: 9:09

There are changes in the work.

Speaker 2: 9:11

Yes here, 20% even from what I see. So these are people who changed their work, probably, and were in a comfortable situation, however. Probably those people who had a job this increase was. However, it was not satisfactory for them, However, at least it was from what I know. The increase in payings is not adequate. As far as inflation is concerned, they are often lower, at least in the next year. Let's see how it will be.

Speaker 1: 9:48

For me it paints an image that shows everything from the perspective of the product manager, the project manager, the manager of IT.

Speaker 1: 9:59

It shows that you have to be quoting Call of Duty, stay frosty, that you have to be prepared for various possibilities because you have to be prepared for the call or for the change of work, especially that such anecdotal examples from my network, some contacts.

Speaker 1: 10:21

I see people who are looking for work in the industry, who have some experience, but I would say they are not. I don't know, I won't say, but they are definitely not the most overwhelming people, but some of them were looking for some kind of job and despite several months of experience they can't find it. I also get, I can get an email from someone who is looking for a job for a few months and I look at it as a CV which is going to the job, join and maybe a year ago it would be easier to find such a person, a person, some kind of a situation. But looking at what is happening now, no one has a budget for investing in someone who has not much commercial experience. It is better to invest in tools or, for example, ai tools, although these are unfortunate for current employees.

Speaker 2: 11:27

Yes, I think that this is something that will definitely be a waste of these earnings, but also to make it difficult for the junior and people who do not have experience in the industry, which is different, ai tools that increase productivity for people who are already in the company, and also just they are good who are chasing the vets.

Speaker 2: 11:46

They take care of people on the given basis. Of course, I have heard a lot of different answers, different giants in the tech who say oh, yes, yes, this revolution will certainly be some changes in the working market.

Speaker 1: 12:03

We know what will happen.

Speaker 2: 12:05

Yes, as in the industrial revolution, it has changed. Yes, the industrial revolution took a few dozen years.

Speaker 1: 12:13

And it allowed people, in the sense of industrial revolution, to create services. In fact, the industrial revolution took people from the farm and brought them to the city, and there was also a lot of business.

Speaker 2: 12:30

Yes, and the quality of life was very long-lasting, because if you work in the village, it's a hard job, but then you come to work in the factory and it's also a hard job, but in more dangerous conditions. All these benefits have just appeared in the next generation.

Speaker 1: 12:46

It was fought. It was fought let's be honest Before it reached people and they could buy Forda T or some other amenities.

Speaker 2: 12:59

It took me many years, so here, no matter if this revolution is happening much faster than the industrial revolution, I think we have to start thinking about how to do it before we start. It's a kind of digression, but maybe we can also talk about how the product management itself looks like on other IT companies. We are finally under the management of product management.

Speaker 1: 13:30

Yes, I think it's pretty good looking at these products. The Piemow, at least in the category of the market, is a very wide spectrum. So here we take into account that there is not only product management but also the leadership technological system. So with programmers like Offerda, like CTO, they can also be found in the category Piem.

Speaker 2: 14:02

Yes, because here I see the highest amount as a registered price. It was 60,000 PLN.

Speaker 1: 14:09

Yes, so generally here I would not look at it. It is not a wide sample, so it shows that these products are quite large. So it's kind of hard to say, because in each of these organizations we said that Piem means something else in the sense that product management means something else but, I would say that I would be surprised if someone is a mid-term and a slave somewhere in the focal points, like 15 kb of Tupi. So I think that this is OK. I mean, I would be surprised if it was a mid-term.

Speaker 2: 14:55

Yes, here is a big difference between B2B and B2B, as we know. I see that you have registered the growth of the reward and the contract 10%, not all but B2B 5%. I'm curious why.

Speaker 1: 15:16

I think that very specific companies are working on the ŁOP. I think that this is the reason.

Speaker 2: 15:30

Usually these companies are more mature. Which?

Speaker 1: 15:32

require a lot of privacy. This is a little less attractive because of the additional optimization. I suspect that I would look for sources.

Speaker 2: 15:48

Yes, companies must have pressure to increase the rewards and here is a real interesting expected version. Most of the competition in your report was that people expected more than People expected less.

Speaker 1: 16:10

Tell me how many people expected less.

Speaker 2: 16:12

Especially mid project manager.

Speaker 1: 16:14

On B2B 24%, junior was 30% Because, of course, juniors have a lot of expectations through the campaign and marketing these schools and general approach Midi. I would say that this is often the case in organizations. Someone has a reward, not a mid, but the obligations are senior. I would often say that I have met people who are mid and are mid, but are the obligations are senior. If I say something like that, I would think that it would be a mess.

Speaker 2: 17:01

And here I see that the expectations of the UOP were also more than 30% lower than expected. On B2B, it was only 15%. I think that's why a lot of senior people are coming here.

Speaker 1: 17:14

Yes, they are coming to B2B because it's their expectations. There are some disappointments. I would say through our system, the tax system also makes the B2B contracts much more expensive after a certain amount and the benefits with the UOP are lower. In this case, it is a question of our lawyers to make something with it, to make it more clear to use the UOP or to balance the situation, to balance the benefits for employees of course but not for the budget.

Speaker 1: 18:05

We will see what the Polish people think, but I think it's unsustainable for the longer term. I think everyone who sits with this is aware of it. At the end of the day, when I came to sum up, I think that the PMK is still quite well understood.

Speaker 1: 18:35

The benefit was, in a sense, the benefit of the IT splendor for the last few years. I wouldn't expect a big increase in rewards. The point is to find a company that is stable. I think it will be quite important in 2024. And so to say, to invest your effectiveness with the EIA to do a job that EIA is not capable of doing good or creative things, combining skills with sales and persuasion and working with others. I'm not laughing here.

Speaker 2: 19:23

No, no, you said it's not possible, it's a YET.

Speaker 1: 19:29

Yes, if AI is possible, you can go to lunch with some other director.

Speaker 2: 19:35

With another AI.

Speaker 1: 19:36

With another director and if you talk to them and stick to them, then if you can do it, it will be too late for us.

Speaker 2: 19:45

Yes, I think that AI is probably on the other side. I encourage companies to optimize and support people. On the other hand, it can be a help for people who are a little bit less experienced to increase their productivity. I also recently played with agents, gpt, various tools to try to adapt to their needs. I'm not saying it's simple and you can do it quickly. However, I think that such tools are a little bit equal to this level if you can use it well. So here I think that if someone wants to, they can do it. If they know how to do it, they will like it. Well, you have to try. It's a new technology, piotr. You have to do it.

Speaker 1: 20:33

And you have to give some data, share data, so that everyone can learn it, so that they can learn it too.

Speaker 2: 20:40

Oh, no, that's not it. Yes, that's not it. I also see various points of view here, which the creators of this report wrote. I think that there is generally such a careful optimism. I think that this can be called that.

Speaker 1: 21:00

Yes, in the next year it is said that there should be plans to recruit, to increase the recruitment. It's the beginning of the year. We don't see it yet. We'll see how it will look like month after month.

Speaker 1: 21:13

It may be so that we will leave this, that everyone will be dry-eyed, and again, for sure I would not expect this year. I would be so surprised it was during the pandemic, when there was a reputation of a reputation, but I would also not like it. I think that there was already a crowd and now there will be such a slow, slow food, and I think that this food in IT will be a little slower than food in other industries, because in other industries there is a lack of specialists in this field. In fact, it is a surplus. That's why everyone wants to work on it. So for the juniors, I can only say, unfortunately, that it seems that this transition to IT will not be just bootcamp. It will be not a project for the company, but for the company. It will be a try to make a startup after an hour and it will start to be required that someone starts to talk to you.

Speaker 1: 22:16

I think that this is the only path that I would now be a junior and for me, if there is any organization, I think that here learning AI, and for the senior, I would say, using these things that will be later, later or will be difficult to be implemented by AI, and here training in these skills, such a golden advice from VKPiotrka.

Speaker 2: 22:45

I think that careful optimism is yes. You can simply sum up this report for the next year. If anyone wants to see what's real, I invite you to the service.

Speaker 1: 22:58

If anyone wants to find a job, I invite you to the JoshJay, exactly, and I hope that you will succeed in this next year.

Speaker 2: 23:08

With our product placement. That's right. That's right and good hearing. Keep on having fun.